Old Mines & Underground Ownership

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Postby TommyDGNR8 » Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:23 am

Alycidon -

If you're researching the 'Brig, this might interest you.

As a kid, I lived in the flats at Sikeside (Grant Place). They were unusual flats in that they had up and downstairs. The block was surrounded by grassland (which seemed huge to me).

Concerns about abandoned mineworks led to heavy plant being installed on our "park" to drill down and pump concrete in. As they drilled in, the water came up like oil! The entire park was turned into a quagmire.

Some time later they drilled down again to confirm the concrete had set properly - no chance; it came bubbling up as fluid as the day it had gone in.

I would have been about 8 or 9 when we were moved out in a hurry; the block had started to sink.

My old uncle, who had worked in the mines between the wars, had always said the houses would go down because Palacecraig had been mined beyond the limits it was supposed to stick to (he used a term - the *something* line - which I can't recall). That might be shite, of course - he was old and bitter having been seriously injured in a mine collapse.

I was quite amused on a recent visit home to see the new "luxury" (well, by Sikey standards!) development on the site - I don't suppose the land's any more stable today than it was in 1975.

I've had a go at indicating where the flats and grass would have been on the current Multimap (which has "Vennachar Road" instead of "Sikeside Street"). Arran Avenue is still there, but it's pretty much a ghost road these days.

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Postby AlanM » Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:56 am

You can get a report on ground stability etc. from https://www.coalminingreports.co.uk at £20 a go. When you're buying a property in an affected area your solicitor will obtain one of these reports for your lender.
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Postby Alycidon » Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:29 am

TommyDGNR8 wrote:As a kid, I lived in the flats at Sikeside (Grant Place). They were unusual flats in that they had up and downstairs. The block was surrounded by grassland (which seemed huge to me).

Concerns about abandoned mineworks led to heavy plant being installed on our "park" to drill down and pump concrete in. As they drilled in, the water came up like oil! The entire park was turned into a quagmire.

Some time later they drilled down again to confirm the concrete had set properly - no chance; it came bubbling up as fluid as the day it had gone in.

I would have been about 8 or 9 when we were moved out in a hurry; the block had started to sink.

My old uncle, who had worked in the mines between the wars, had always said the houses would go down because Palacecraig had been mined beyond the limits it was supposed to stick to (he used a term - the *something* line - which I can't recall). That might be shite, of course - he was old and bitter having been seriously injured in a mine collapse.

I was quite amused on a recent visit home to see the new "luxury" (well, by Sikey standards!) development on the site - I don't suppose the land's any more stable today than it was in 1975.

I've had a go at indicating where the flats and grass would have been on the current Multimap (which has "Vennachar Road" instead of "Sikeside Street"). Arran Avenue is still there, but it's pretty much a ghost road these days.


Hi Tommy,

I remember the area well, my cousin stayed in Cumbrae Crescent. There are still some blocks of these flats, (or "maisonettes" to give them their proper title) elsewhere in Airdrie. I also remember the carry on with the subsidence, everytime I went to see my cousin there seemed to be one block less! He eventually moved up to Cairnhill.

The area was mined to death, I think that the problem was that there were various generations of mines, from the earliest "stoop and room" mines that were relatively shallow to the later deep mines. It was said that it was a combination of the earlier and later mines that cause the problem, many of the old mines were dug before it was necessary to keep accurate records and because of their shallowness they were prone to flooding from groundwater, rivers or in the case of Sikeside and Central Coatbridge from the Monkland Canal. This was OK as long as the water could be kept in place but if it was released (eg through the boreholes or seepage into later/deeper mines, the old stoops (which were columns of coal left in place to support the roof) tended to collapse leading to subsidence. Of course if you stick a hefty block of flats on the surface that adds additional stress on the stoops and increases the risk.
Modern housing in that area has to be built on "raft" foundations which are basically a block of solid concrete onto which the building was constructed.
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The theory being that if there was subsidence the building would not collapse due to different parts of the foundations sinking at a different rate.
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Postby Timchilli » Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:03 am

As AlanM notes, Coal Reports are part & parcel of conveyancing and will show the extent of mines in the area together with info on when they were last mined, etc. Very useful.

This page has some interesting information on mining in Jordanhill/Anniesland: http://www.wsmclean.com/mining

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Re: mines

Postby Vinny the Mackem » Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:53 am

Pripyat wrote:
I was told from older relatives that there used to be
a mine in the Netherton area of Anniesland. Probably
a whole load of houses, just waiting to get swallowed up 8O


http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&GridE=-4.33340&GridN=55.89911&lon=-4.33340&lat=55.89911&place=Shafton%20Place%2C%20TEMPLE%2C%20G13&db=GB&scale=5000&search_result=Shafton%20Place%2C%20TEMPLE%2C%20G13&lang=&db=GB&keepicon=true

If you look at the big empty square between Knightscliffe Avenue and the bend in Shafton Road, those are currently red blaize pitches. A good few years ago a hole developed in the middle of the pitches. Also there are shops between Wilverton Road and Shafton Place (on the Knightscliffe Avenue side of the road) with flats above them. Round the back of the flats are the usual drying greens. In the middle of the greens there is a square fenced off bit of grass. If you jump over the fence (it's not a big fence) and jump on the grass, it doesn't make a "jumping on grass" sound, but a dull metallic ring, and a significant echo! Likelihood of it being the shaft itself (given the street name!)
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Postby Alycidon » Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:00 pm

My God am I not surprised at what you have found, going back through the old maps this area was heavily mined and quarried. The 1864 map shows three coal mines and one ironstone mine, along with a substantial quarry and Garscube Iron Works. One of the mines lines up exactly with the current ash pitch!!!

The 1924 maps show heavy clay extraction on the go, feeding Jordanhill and Garscube brickworks. Little evidence of later mining but as I said earlier, it is the older mines that seem to be the most troublesome.

BTW ithe footpath under Fulton Street was on old railway, the maps show a branch line running up the side of what is now the pitches.
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Postby Socceroo » Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:30 pm

Quite a few areas in and around Glasgow have heavy concentrations of mines. Parkhead around Nuneaton Street and London Road is peppered.

Also the areas running off the banks of the Kelvin in the West End around Lacrosse, Belmont Street, Hamilton Park Avenue and also further down at Bank Street, Gibson Street and Glasgow Street. Some of the mines in this area were cut in from the steep banks of the Kelvin. A lot of these areas were filled with huge volumes of grout during the early 1980's as a lot of subsidence was evident. I recall that bits of Gibson Street, Bank Street, Belmont Street and Hamilton Park Avenue actually collapsed.

Even these days if a new development is to be constructed on a brown field site in the West End then the site is often drilled out and grouted to fill the mines which are up to 250 years old.

As mentioned in the earlier posts in this thread, Darnley and Nitshill is also very heavily mined. Mine openings were formed initially in the Leven Valley? River banks and later mines were much deeper shaft mines.

It would be ill advised to try and enter any kind of mine or indeed underground void without the correct training and rescue kit. Mines and underground voids are basically in contaminated soils. If the contamination gases don't get you then the naturally occurring ones might.

I read somewhere earlier this year that you have got about an 80% chance of killing yourself if you enter an unmaintained mine or sewage / drainage shaft.
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Postby hazy » Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:31 pm

Did anybody see the plans for Anniesland Cross in the Late 70s early 80s. They showed an under pass at the cross and a large round about I am sure. This was all changed due to the cost of filling in the mines below.
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Postby Alex Glass » Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:51 pm

There were a lot of mines in the Nitshill area. At the Victoria Pit in March 1851 61 men and boys lost their lives.

I have a education pack about this with a map of the mine. Difficulty is there is an argument as to where exactly the pit was located.

Have you seen this site
http://www.mining-villages.co.uk/5.html

Just had a look through it there are some great pictures.

I am trying to locate an other site I got some illistrations from a while back. When I find it I will post it for you.

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Postby Linda » Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:20 pm

I am probably telling you all something you already know but Summerlee out Coatbridge way is a great day out with plenty of mining info and the website http://www.miningvillages.co.uk has lots of interesting stuff including housing ,accident reports etc. I found the inspectors reports for some of my family members' deaths on there. Very tragic. The McPitz website is also very good. Can't remember the address. Will post again when I remember.
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Postby Alycidon » Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:58 pm

Alex Glass wrote:here were a lot of mines in the Nitshill area. At the Victoria Pit in March 1851 61 men and boys lost their lives.

I have a education pack about this with a map of the mine. Difficulty is there is an argument as to where exactly the pit was located.


Couldn't resist a challenge! Using old-maps it wasn't actually hard to find the Victoria Pit on the 1864 maps. Quick rendering with Live Local brought up the image below. I reckon that the mine was just behind the buidings that are at the corner of where Linnhead Drive and Glenmuir Drive now meet

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Postby gap74 » Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:23 pm

Al,

If you're still researching the location of mines in the Cambuslang area, I can help you out, I've done a wee bit of work on this - PM me.

In particular, I've looked into the various Newton pits, inlcuding one on the south side of the Clyde called Kenmurihill, Gateside, Dechmont and Hallside Collieries, Kirkhill, the Toll Pit and Greenlees. Many of these have physical remains still visible, which I've been trying to record, as well as the various associated mineral railway lines and bings.

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Victoria Pit location

Postby Alex Glass » Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:06 pm

Hi Alycidon

Thanks for the maps and your guess at the location of the Victoria Pit. About 8 years ago the Architect involved in the new build houses near the Priesthill Water Tower thought that he had managed to locate the pit. The map below placed the entrance at the rear of the houses. near to the water tower.

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As you can see from the picture this is in the general area of your location but a little more to the south east.

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Postby Squigster » Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:55 pm

Site of Blantyre Mining Disaster

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Memorial at High Blantyre Cross.

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Postby Alex Glass » Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:06 pm

Wow!

Great photos Squigster.

The monument is impressive.
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