One for the railway heads

[HollowHorn]

Beneld.......I've been looking for a photo of that Cafe for many a year, thanks.

[beneld]

If its the one of the scarabs they are gap74's from slightly earlier in the thread i just wanted to see them stitched.
It may be possible depending on how much of the buildings you see behind the moving vehicles to remove the vehicles completely and just leave the background. I would need the video clip to try that.

[Godsgift]

I seem to remember the 303s were plenty comfortable before they did that horrible refurb on them. As a small boy, I remember looking through the window behind the driver. There were compartments with sliding doors at the carriage ends and real woodon the window frames. They had striped plush seats which were thick and spongey... I suppose harping back to the comfort of steam. Space heaters ran the length of each unit and the seats themselves had some type of heater under them. The bouncey seats stick in my mind as I have memories of trying to do my undone homework on the train. Pete Walbank the Physics teacher used to say in his cockney accent: 'Looks like a spider's crawled across the page.'

I do remember the apprentices did a retrofit on one of them to the original blue livery and comfortable interior. It lay parked at the depot on the way to Paisley Canal for years but I think it was vandalised and never used for commuters. SPTE had taken over by then. God I hated the orange colour on the buses and trains nearly as much as I hate the First Bus colours. Bring back all the old Britisg Rail and Glasgow Corporation liveries I say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ick5tdT1x4U

[train driver]

I suspect the problem is with our fellow passengers - I've been on boiling hot trains with all the windows open where the first thing anyone getting on does is close the nearest 4 windows to them, and vice versa.

Am I right in thinking that most Scotrail stock have at least some windows you can open, other than the 170s? Even the 380s look to have at least one opening window per carriage?

I think so, 158s had their windows altered to make the AC work better(!) but can be opened withg a key, dont work 380s so cant comment on them, over the last year they've put heater switches in the cabs of the 156s so its easier to switch off and on, the 158s have AC units in the panels at the cab ends, we switch off and open the hoppers, 170s have 3 AC settings, i know 318s/314s/320s have opening windows, dunno about their heaters as theyre DOO trains, but i suspect they may have controls somewhere

the 158's AC was altered some time between 2004/2006, you used to be able to open the windows but when they upgraded the AC to a new system, they discovered that the temps fluctuated in a coach with an open window & this played havoc with the temp controlled heaters.

dont know anything about 314's but the only heating control you have on 318's & 320's is a MCB switch behind the bulkhead panels in each coach, an isolation cock in the ASM & an additional master MCB in the fault cupboard for each 3 car unit.

same with 334's, they have a heating MCB in the enviromental cupboard.

[aland]

I do remember the apprentices did a retrofit on one of them to the original blue livery and comfortable interior. It lay parked at the depot on the way to Paisley Canal for years but I think it was vandalised and never used for commuters. SPTE had taken over by then. God I hated the orange colour on the buses and trains nearly as much as I hate the First Bus colours. Bring back all the old Britisg Rail and Glasgow Corporation liveries I say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ick5tdT1x4U

the blue train 303048 was the last unrefurbished set taht worked in manchester in the 80's then john yellowlees of scotrail brought her back up here prior to preservation, she worked a few railtours before lying OOU at sheilds where the vandals got in and trashed the interior, as she had not been refurbished the insulation was totally original I.E blue asbestos, from talking to the lads at MC metals it was onle of the worst decontamination jobs as the neds had been having snowball fights inside (using asbestos as snowballs). There was also needles everywhere, so if the smack doesnt get the neds the asbestos will. apparently the unit was a pain to move as it had to be air sealed for the move from sheilds to springburn, was done by road eventually

[Josef]

from talking to the lads at MC metals it was one of the worst decontamination jobs as the neds had been having snowball fights inside (using asbestos as snowballs).

FFS.

[Godsgift]

@aland Sorry to hear that. I was hoping it was in some railway museum somewhere. It would be as relevant to my generation as a tank engine would be to my father's. I think they have one awaiting preservation at SRPS in Bo'ness. At least, that's the last place I saw one in it's god awful orange livery and formica interior.

[darrel]

I can say that the reports of the unit being vandalised are not true. nor was there any asbestos in the unit. the unit was selected because asbestos had been removed.
MC metals were given the instruction to scrap the unit immediately. what the real reason for scrapping the unit was I don't know. the story put round was the interior had been saved by Scotrail that was not true either.

[Alycidon]

From page 3 of this very thread,

with regard to 048 that is oned of the sad ones as she aws repainted into original blue and ran a few special trains and was the sheilds road mascot, the reasons behind her scrapping was hard to take at 1st as she was designated by the railway heritage committee for preservation but unfortunately she was left round the back of the depot (where the 2 virgin buffet cars are now) and the local neds and junkies got in and trashed her pretty badly, being un-refurbished everything was original including the insulation. apparently the fitters went to do some work and found the formica panels ripped off the walls and blue asbestos everywhere. the vehicles were sealed and transported to MC metals (by road) within days. the contamination was so bad with the fibers in the seats very little was saveable. so the karma is that if the heroin doesnt kill the junkies the asbestos will

that is why we have a refurb 303 at bo'ness now

Delving back into messages in the Scot-Rail Yahoo Group, there were comments that although the unit was cosmetically restored it was mechanically and electrically deteriorating very badly, and some safety issues had emerged regarding the unit being able to move without the doors having been closed.

[aland]

thought i'd told that story before as for anyone saying that she was clean of asbestos then utter bullcrap, she was unrefurbished so was full of it, jim mcwilliam of mc's confirmed this

the 303 at bo'ness is runnable, the interior is okay, mechanically she is good. body is a bit rough but there is plans and budget for a repaint, pressure of work holding this up as the big projects atm are the mainlining of 37025 and 403, then bodywork for 27001, rad tanks for 26024 and continuing bogie overhaul, the body and bogie overhaul of 25235 plus all the usual maintenence. hopefully the 303 will see paint this year. main way to see thsi happen is either to get the ovies and boots on or donate cash so paid labour can be used

[gap74]

There's also, of course, the similar 311 - a converted sandite unit survived until recently at Summerlee on prominent display until their refurb a few years ago, following which they bizarrely and disgracefully scrapped one of the driving units - the remaining two-thirds of the train now languish in a back corner on the site...

I know someone who refuses to go near the place now following that decision!

[gap74]

Sigh - see if the money spent getting Zaha Hadid to design a cramped and impractical transport museum had instead been spent on a larger, plainer building....

There should be a 303 or 311 in there. There should be a Leyland Atlantean in the later green/yellow/white Corporation livery, and a Leyland Leopard in Central SMT livery in there. There should be a current Subway unit in there when they're withdrawn in a few years time.

[Alycidon]

Sigh - see if the money spent getting Zaha Hadid to design a cramped and impractical transport museum had instead been spent on a larger, plainer building....

There should be a 303 or 311 in there. There should be a Leyland Atlantean in the later green/yellow/white Corporation livery, and a Leyland Leopard in Central SMT livery in there. There should be a current Subway unit in there when they're withdrawn in a few years time.

Perhaps if someone with a bit of common sense takes over running the museum then they might do what the National Railway Museum has done and open an annexe on another site, said it many times before, I would get the locomotives out to a rail connected site and look for lottery grants to get them restored to main line running condition, what a tourism boost it would be to have these locos running on the West Highland etc. Equally any buses as suggested above would be maintained in a runnable condition.

[darrel]

some of the refurbished 303s had the asbestos removed the only asbestos that remained was behind the jumper cables. apparently the easy way to tell which units had the asbestos removed was to look at the screws that held the internal panels together. I can't remember now whether it was the ones with cross head screws that had been stripped or the other way around. when the unit was selected there were many other unrefurbished units still around. it was selected as it had the asbestos removed. it was also the only one with the original style floor next to the doors. the floor was smooth other units had a kind of slatted floor added later.
Rodger Whip who worked on the 303' s for all their life at pressed steel east didsbury, Hyndland depot Sheilds road Glasgow works and MC metals helped select the unit.
mechanically it was in good condition. about a year before she was cut up she had a bogie swap with either 3030082 or 303060 both had been brought back up from crewe to provide spares. (that in itself is another story) the bogies had been more recently overhauled than the ones she had.
It only had one failure in traffic when the smoothing choke burnt out when it was doing a special from crewe to Liverpool in connection with an open day at Crewe diesel depot.
I was one of the volunteers who helped restore the unit and worked as support crew on it on its many trips.

[Josef]

Sigh - see if the money spent getting Zaha Hadid to design a cramped and impractical transport museum had instead been spent on a larger, plainer building....

The purpose was to have an 'iconic' building, and there are few ways more likely to achieve iconic building status than getting Hadid to design it. The Transport Museum was a mere excuse.

Nothing against Hadid, btw. As it happens, the few European cities I've been to have (completely coincidentally) also happened to be the location of her major works. I like most of them.