Glasgow Airport Rail Link (G.A.R.L.) Project Photographs

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Re: Glasgow Airport Rail Link (G.A.R.L.) Project Photographs

Postby Ally Doll » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Autolycus wrote:Looks like this is where the GARL money went.

Aberdeen bypass given green light by ministers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/nor ... 424142.stm

Yet more anti Glasgow bias.


Ever tried to get through Aberdeen at rush hour?
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Re: Glasgow Airport Rail Link (G.A.R.L.) Project Photographs

Postby Autolycus » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:22 pm

Ally Doll wrote:
Autolycus wrote:Looks like this is where the GARL money went.

Aberdeen bypass given green light by ministers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/nor ... 424142.stm

Yet more anti Glasgow bias.


Ever tried to get through Aberdeen at rush hour?


Yes. No more difficult than trying to get to/ from Glasgow Airport at rush hour. How can it make sense to dump a public transport scheme in Glasgow to pay for a car/ lorry/ bus ring road around Aberdeen?

What would the President of the Maldives have had to say about this had he known? You takin' the pish, Alex?

What would Arnie have said to Stewart Stevenson? Thanks for the whisky but no cigar for you?
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Re: Glasgow Airport Rail Link (G.A.R.L.) Project Photographs

Postby BenCooper » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:13 pm

But it's not just a public transport scheme - it's a public transport scheme that makes it easier to travel by air, the most unenvironmental way of travelling. I'm glad they've dropped the scheme - the longer it takes and the more hassle it is to fly, the more people will take the train.
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Re: Glasgow Airport Rail Link (G.A.R.L.) Project Photographs

Postby Autolycus » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:16 pm

BenCooper wrote:But it's not just a public transport scheme - it's a public transport scheme that makes it easier to travel by air, the most unenvironmental way of travelling. I'm glad they've dropped the scheme - the longer it takes and the more hassle it is to fly, the more people will take the train.



You're right. Our economy probably doesn't need tourism or business visitors from North America, the New World, Europe or the Far East.
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Re: Glasgow Airport Rail Link (G.A.R.L.) Project Photographs

Postby BenCooper » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:21 am

It does, but they won't be turned of by the lack of a rail link. When you go on holiday, do you pick your holiday destination by whether there's a rail link from the airport? I doubt anyone does.

This rail link was really for all the people who take short-haul flights from Glasgow to the rest of the UK or Europe - and it's those people, especially to the UK destinations, who should really be going by train.
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Re: Glasgow Airport Rail Link (G.A.R.L.) Project Photographs

Postby Autolycus » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:26 am

This rail link was part of the promised infrastructure for the Commonwealth Games. Even if you accept that few but the richest Commonwealth countries will be able to afford to attend nobody is going to be travelling from Australia or Canada by First Scotrail.
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Re: Glasgow Airport Rail Link (G.A.R.L.) Project Photographs

Postby sds » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:05 am

BenCooper wrote:But it's not just a public transport scheme - it's a public transport scheme that makes it easier to travel by air, the most unenvironmental way of travelling. I'm glad they've dropped the scheme - the longer it takes and the more hassle it is to fly, the more people will take the train.

If they made the train service more efficient, then more people would take the train. I love taking the train. But if you have to make a meeting in London first thing in the morning, then the train just can't get you there in time. And I wouldn't fancy going down in the morning and coming back at night, which is certainly possible by plane.

BenCooper wrote:It does, but they won't be turned of by the lack of a rail link. When you go on holiday, do you pick your holiday destination by whether there's a rail link from the airport? I doubt anyone does.

No, but it does influence my opinion of a place. I'll either remember "hassle" or "easy". If I turn up at an airport and I have a direct rail link to the centre of the city, then things are good. If I turn up at an airport and the only link is a taxi or a bus run by a local gunslinger then I'll remember the hassle.

Example: I've flown into Rome twice. Once to FCO, once to CIA. The former has frequent train links to Rome which cost 11€. The latter had an intermittent bus ride to Rome which cost 16€. Which do you think was the better experience?

Taking the train from Glasgow to Rome is certainly possible, but it's not convenient. The farthest I took a train from Glasgow was Brussels, and that was the upper limit of what I'm willing to accept from rail travel. Of course, the longest part of the journey was the crawl down the WCML...

This rail link was really for all the people who take short-haul flights from Glasgow to the rest of the UK or Europe - and it's those people, especially to the UK destinations, who should really be going by train.

I agree that more UK journeys should be taken by rail. But for that to happen, our rail network requires a lot of work.
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Re: Glasgow Airport Rail Link (G.A.R.L.) Project Photographs

Postby cheesemonster » Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:46 pm

sds wrote:Example: I've flown into Rome twice. Once to FCO, once to CIA. The former has frequent train links to Rome which cost 11€. The latter had an intermittent bus ride to Rome which cost 16€. Which do you think was the better experience?

That wasn't the case when I was there (CIA) in January 2007 and doesn't appear to be the case now. Terravision, who Ryanair ally with have reduced their prices to 4€ each way, and there are a choice of other bus operators (Schiaffini and BusShuttle according to Wikipedia), in fact, it is possible to get from Ciampino airport to Termini for a single euro by getting a local bus to Anagnina metro station and then getting the metro to Termini provided you have acquired a bus/metro ticket from a tobacconists. There is also a bus for tourists that goes direct to Anagnina from the airport, where you can buy a ticket from the driver for around 3 euros. And there is also a train station in Ciampino town, which is a short bus or taxi ride away. There is choice and it isn't near as expensive or intermittent as you've suggested.

GARL would have been very handy, especially if it linked up to Edinburgh (and airport) via the fabled Crossrail.
I much prefer the train, however, the bus service to Glasgow airport is pretty decent, and with the prices quoted for GARL's 1 mile of track it was rightfully ditched. Can anyone explain to me why infrastructure projects in this country are so expensive and never run on time!?
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Re: Glasgow Airport Rail Link (G.A.R.L.) Project Photographs

Postby sds » Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:42 pm

cheesemonster wrote:
sds wrote:Example: I've flown into Rome twice. Once to FCO, once to CIA. The former has frequent train links to Rome which cost 11€. The latter had an intermittent bus ride to Rome which cost 16€. Which do you think was the better experience?

That wasn't the case when I was there (CIA) in January 2007 and doesn't appear to be the case now. Terravision, who Ryanair ally with have reduced their prices to 4€ each way, and there are a choice of other bus operators (Schiaffini and BusShuttle according to Wikipedia), in fact, it is possible to get from Ciampino airport to Termini for a single euro by getting a local bus to Anagnina metro station and then getting the metro to Termini provided you have acquired a bus/metro ticket from a tobacconists. There is also a bus for tourists that goes direct to Anagnina from the airport, where you can buy a ticket from the driver for around 3 euros. And there is also a train station in Ciampino town, which is a short bus or taxi ride away. There is choice and it isn't near as expensive or intermittent as you've suggested.

In that case, Terravision have vastly improved their service, and reduced their prices to boot. When I arrived, I left the airport to find the bus stances, waited with other passengers and little information until a bus turned up, to be turned back to the airport with a bunch of those passengers because I wouldn't be able to buy a ticket from the driver or the ticket inspectors. Consequently missed that bus, and had to wait ~45 minutes for the next. Also, perhaps I was being a little unfair: I arrived mid-evening, so alternative services had perhaps stopped. Regardless, from my perspective I had little information on an apparently fragmented, and (at the time) expensive service. I'm sure you can understand my tainted opinion of arriving through CIA.

Sure, First World complaints and all that, it's not like it was Hell on Earth, I didn't mind all too much, and I got to where I was going. I was holidaying, so I didn't care too much. But when it comes to business travel, with schedules to meet, and ways in and out of a city? Trains win every damn time. (One exception I've seen is Helsinki (HEL), which has no rail link, but whose city-run buses work like clockwork, are modern, clean, and spacious.)
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Re: Glasgow Airport Rail Link (G.A.R.L.) Project Photographs

Postby cheesemonster » Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:32 pm

sds wrote:One exception I've seen is Helsinki (HEL), which has no rail link, but whose city-run buses work like clockwork, are modern, clean, and spacious.
Yes, the first time I visited Helsinki was in February and it was -15 degrees and there was a hell of a lot of snow, far more than we have at the moment , and the bus still left on time and arrived on time.

The best airport to city centre connection I've used is Zurich. Trains every 10 minutes during the day, with the fastest taking a mere 8 minutes. Double decker coaches with 1st and 2nd class, and 2nd class was clean and spacious.
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Re: Glasgow Airport Rail Link (G.A.R.L.) Project Photographs

Postby moonbeam » Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:30 pm

A British example is Southampton Airport where the rail station is just across the road, The Heathrow
express is getting very expensive compared to the tube.If GARL is built will people use it or continue to use the bus? I fear the folk in Dumbarton/ Clydebank/ Bearsden/ Newton Mearns etc will just use the car or taxi.
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Re: Glasgow Airport Rail Link (G.A.R.L.) Project Photographs

Postby Dexter St. Clair » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:53 pm

But if you have to make a meeting in London first thing in the morning, then the train just can't get you there in time.


Image
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Re: Glasgow Airport Rail Link (G.A.R.L.) Project Photographs

Postby sds » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:10 pm

Dexter St. Clair wrote:
But if you have to make a meeting in London first thing in the morning, then the train just can't get you there in time.


Image

Caught in the act, so I was! Actually that looks quite reasonable. Perhaps I should check facts more prior to posting? It's a while since I've done a day trip to London, but at the time the train wasn't feasible. Either these are services that didn't exist at the time, or the skies had additional, and therefore considerably cheaper, capacity, and hence my choice. Thanks, Dexter, noted for future reference!

moonbeam wrote:The Heathrow express is getting very expensive compared to the tube.

Getting? Hey, it's nice at least, and considerably speedier than the tube.

If GARL is built will people use it

Yes

or continue to use the bus?

Yes.

These are complementary solutions to the same problem.
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Re: Glasgow Airport Rail Link (G.A.R.L.) Project Photographs

Postby Autolycus » Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:58 am

sds wrote: .......................

If GARL is built will people use it

Yes

or continue to use the bus?

Yes.

These are complementary solutions to the same problem.


The problem with the airport 'express' bus service is that it can take as long to get to/ from the airport as you spend in the air from Heathrow etc. Even the 747 service which mostly avoids the M8 isn't what you'd call quick.
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Re: Glasgow Airport Rail Link (G.A.R.L.) Project Photographs

Postby sds » Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:43 am

Autolycus wrote:
sds wrote:These are complementary solutions to the same problem.


The problem with the airport 'express' bus service is that it can take as long to get to/ from the airport as you spend in the air from Heathrow etc. Even the 747 service which mostly avoids the M8 isn't what you'd call quick.

I've taken the 747 also, and I agree that it certainly isn't fast. It does, however, go round all the houses (almost literally), and so it's useful for many folks (hence, complementary to a train service). It's just not a speedy solution to get from the airport to the city and back no matter what way First spin it.
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