Glasgow Crossrail

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Postby james73 » Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:19 pm

Excellent Pgcc93 - I see that plan had a new station at Blythswood, and
the new junction at Bridgeton Cross.


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Postby Pgcc93 » Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:05 pm

Cheers james73 8)

The first I heard of the proposed station at Blythswood was in the thread started by DVF.

http://hiddenglasgow.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=199&highlight=blythswood+station

A lot of missed opportunities there. Heres hoping Crossrail gets the go ahead in the next couple of years, they've had enough time to 'sleep on it' thats for sure.
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Postby Pgcc93 » Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:21 pm

Another interesting articles mentions the use of St Enoch for a light rail system.

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Imagine if the station had survived? Just think of the quality of rail system we might have had today.

The Mighty St Enoch: Glasgows shame!
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Postby Captain Brittles » Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:27 pm

As a pro railway person I think all this is obviously for the good but I hesitate to support it all blindly - as I suspect (with all due respect) many of the posters are.
The late James Sanderson of the Daiily Express and Radio Clyde, phone- in fame had a phrase; "Bums on seats" and although he was referring to fitba' match attendances it is relevant to all these proposed railway extensions and line re-openings.
My point is, would these proposals bring in a sufficient return on the huge capital expenditure outlay? Or would parts of it be a financial disaster?
Has all this been costed ? Is there a demand for straight through travel from Paisley to the east end or to Coatbridge for example ? And vice versa of course.

In a week where MG-Rover were allowed to go under because it was considered a lame duck with no future and therefore not entitiled to state subsidy (fair enough) it might be difficult to justify state funds going into something that could also be a financial lame duck.

Just some thoughts.
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Postby Pgcc93 » Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:31 pm

Some pics prior to demolition.


Awesome train shed roofs!

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Former Main Departure Board

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Spectacular view of the steelwork.

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Postby james73 » Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:07 am

Captain Brittles wrote:As a pro railway person I think all this is obviously for the good but I hesitate to support it all blindly - as I suspect (with all due respect) many of the posters are.
The late James Sanderson of the Daiily Express and Radio Clyde, phone- in fame had a phrase; "Bums on seats" and although he was referring to fitba' match attendances it is relevant to all these proposed railway extensions and line re-openings.
My point is, would these proposals bring in a sufficient return on the huge capital expenditure outlay? Or would parts of it be a financial disaster?
Has all this been costed ? Is there a demand for straight through travel from Paisley to the east end or to Coatbridge for example ? And vice versa of course.

In a week where MG-Rover were allowed to go under because it was considered a lame duck with no future and therefore not entitiled to state subsidy (fair enough) it might be difficult to justify state funds going into something that could also be a financial lame duck.


Just some thoughts.


I dont think you can compare Rover to using *then existing* railway
infrastructure to provide more services and routes. Either you want
a public transport system, or you dont. If you don't, Glasgow would
grind to a halt, as would many other cities.

St Enoch's could've have been modified slightly (not a lot of work) to have
more of it's lines heading north eastwards (Platfoms 1 & 2 already could
exit the station in this direction) which could provide an additional city
centre teminus for trains from the north and east.

As for demand for services, one thing's for certain - if it isn't provided
then the demand is zero. I have a mate who lives in the east end, but
works out towards Hillington. If he could get a train direct from Shettleston
to Hillington, then he'd probably ditch his car. I used to work in Renfrew,
which has appalling public transport links - yet it used to have two rail
lines into the town.


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The Clyderail Report

Postby Alycidon » Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:16 pm

The proposals for developing Glasgow inner city rail lines, and the crossrail link in particular are nothing particularly new, even as the lines were being closed in the early 1960s the plans were formulated to re-open them. I found an article in an old "Modern Railways" magazine from the early 1970s that reported the Clyderail report of 1971. This was the basis for the re-opening of the Argyle line and the proposals for the Tron Link as it was then known wre also contained in the report. Some tweaking of the plans have taken place but essentially it is the same stuff
Full details at
http://www.jhowie.force9.co.uk/strathclyde.html
Details of the Bridgeton link at http://www.jhowie.force9.co.uk/303tributepage1a.htm
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Postby james73 » Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:21 pm

From the Evening Times:
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/lo/features/7020174.html

AFTER 30 years, Glasgow has finally come up with detailed blueprint for
a £187million Crossrail scheme to transform train travel across
Scotland. Chief Reporter DAVID LEASK talks to the people who will
appreciate it most

YOU see them come rain or shine, the unwitting visitors to Glasgow who
discover there is no direct rail link between the city's two main
stations. Every day scores of them have to drag suitcases and shopping
bags up Buchanan Street between Central Station and Queen Street,
joining thousands of locals forced to make the same trip.

All are walking the biggest missing link in Scotland's transport
system, the yawning gap between railway systems north and south of the
Clyde.

And in the rain, it's not nice.

Irish nurses Catherine Burke and Fiona Jordan, from Shannon, found out
the hard way.

Bedraggled and exhausted, they got lost on their walk through Glasgow
city centre on their way from Prestwick Airport to Edinburgh.

Catherine, 26, said: "It's a nightmare having to walk between stations,
especially in the pouring rain.

Pal Fiona, 29, added: "We don't visit Scotland very often but we might
come here more if the journey was made a bit easier."

But their troubles could be near an end.

Today, Strathclyde Passenger Transport officially unveiled a detailed
blueprint for Crossrail, a scheme to link rail networks on either side
of the Clyde that has been on the cards for more than 30 years.

SPT bosses point out all it would take is less than a mile of track.

But their scheme, which is costed at up to £187million, will transform
rail services from Stranraer to Aberdeen.

For the first time ever passengers may be able to travel from Ayr to
Edinburgh, from Paisley to Dundee, without getting off a train.

SPT chairman Alistair Watson argues Crossrail - no longer called
Glasgow Crossrail - is a major national project.

And Mr Watson, a Glasgow city councillor and retired train driver, is
confident the scheme, which is backed in principle by the Scottish
Executive, will become reality.

He said: "Parliamentarians will be nuts if they turn this down.

"I think this is the most strategically important rail initiative in
Scotland."

For a project involving just yards of track, Crossrail really is grand
in scale.

And, as Mr Watson says, it "ticks all the boxes" as far as the
Executive is concerned, helping to get cars off the roads, speeding up
journey times and regenerating some of Glasgow's poorest areas.

The project will involve building three new stations and revamping a
fourth.

Its centrepiece is Glasgow Cross, the city's historic heart and once
one of its busiest railway stations.

SPT aims to turn the A-listed Mercat building at Glasgow Cross into
what the agency's operations manager,

Douglas Ferguson, calls "effectively Glasgow's third station".

Eventually, transport chiefs would like to see Glasgow Cross operate on
two levels. Its old underground station - on the same line as Argyle
Street station - still lies under Trongate.

But for now, they would be happy to see the Mercat transformed into a
"magnificent" station on the old City Union railway line, which curves
past the building on its way from the Gorbals.

The old line - its tracks now mostly used by nothing more than the
occasional diesel dragging empty freight cars - is crucial to
Crossrail.

Under the scheme it will be transformed into one of the main arteries
of the city.

And it could easily be adapted to link north and south.

All it needs is a few hundred yards of track to curve west from Glasgow
Cross past High Street to connect services from south of the river to
Queen Street, Charing Cross and beyond.

It already runs east of High Street to offer the chance of services
from south of the river to Lanarkshire and - if plans for a new
Glasgow-Edinburgh line via Airdrie and Bathgate get the go-ahead - to
the Lothians too.

SPT aims to revamp the rundown High Street station and a new station
would also be created in the Gorbals.

Planners aim to put a new station above the railway arches at Ballater
Street as it crosses one of the city's most vibrant regeneration areas.

And services will be able to run south of the Gorbals to communities as
diverse as Barrhead and East Kilbride thanks to another new stretch of
track - along a viaduct laid out by the Victorians across Laurieston.

But Crossrail will offer more still.

Mr Watson and his team at SPT have long held ambitions to open a new
station at West Street in Tradeston, near the current subway station,
which would create an interchange as big as Partick in the west end.

It would offer connections on the new Crossrail services across the
Clyde to stations like Glasgow Cross, High Street and Queen Street and
beyond.

But the new West Street would also have links to existing lines south
from Central Station and the Subway station.

The West Street station would almost certainly be a stop on the new
Glasgow Airport rail link, scheduled for completion in 2008.

Passengers from Glasgow Airport - and even Prestwick and the Ayrshire
ferries - would be able to get straight on the Subway at West Street.

So what happens next?

The SPT blueprint for Crossrail, officially a technical feasibility
study, will go before its ruling board on October 7. That puts the ball
in the Scottish Executive's court.

The Executive is committed to Crossrail in its partnership agreement of
its ruling Labour and LibDem coalition. But it will almost certainly be
scrutinised carefully.

With the right backing it could be up and running by 2010.

Crossrail could allow dozens of new suburban services and pave the way
for impressive new cross-country services.

But not everybody will be happy. Glasgow cabbies will lose short but
regular fares from Central to Queen Street.

Taxi driver Robert Thomson, from Milton, said: "I can pick up 50 or so
people a week going between Central and Queen Street and, at £2 a time,
I would be nearly £400 out of pocket at the end of the month.

"That would be a nightmare."


Image
THE A-listed Mercat building next to the Trongate would be turned into a
station and help link up rail lines to all parts of the city and beyond

Image
GLASGOW CROSS: The rear interior of the A-listed Mercat building at
Glasgow Cross would be transformed into one of the city's newest stations,
boosting the regeneration of the east end.

Image
GORBALS: A station will be built high on the arches. New track will take
trains to Barrhead, East Kilbride and beyond and the existing City Union
line will go to West Street, Paisley and Glasgow Airport.

Image
HIGH STREET: The rundown station at High Street will become a major
new interchange, with services west to Queen Street and beyond, and east
to Airdrie and, perhaps, Bathgate and Edinburgh.

Image
WEST STREET: A new interchange station would be built next to the
existing Subway, where trains from Glasgow and Prestwick airports,
Renfrewshire, Ayrshire and Inverclyde would stop.



------------------------------------

Taxi driver Robert Thomson, from Milton, said: "I can pick up 50 or so
people a week going between Central and Queen Street and, at £2 a time,
I would be nearly £400 out of pocket at the end of the month.

"That would be a nightmare."

That poor cabbie, eh? :roll: Let's just can the whole idea....



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Postby escotregen » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:30 am

James, first just a presentational point; I see that the budgeted Crossrail proposals are being fronted by Alistair Watson, Chair of the SPT. I have dealt a couple of times with him at forums over the transport implications of the Greater Glasgow Hospitals re-organisation and I have found him to be staight and sound in our dealings.

Secondly on the reality of the need for Crossrail. It really is a significant gap we have in Glasgow's infrastructure. Last Thursday I was to chair a conference in Dundee. I had to travel from Burnside to Central station and then walk to Queens Street to catch the Aberdeen train. It was the proverbial pouring wet morning. The local commuter train into Central was delayed. I had to really hoof it from Central to Queen Street in the rain complete with packed overnight case - result I'm left sitting in the Aberdeen train with a wet and bedraggled start to a demanding day. This is one of many illustrations as to why business people just prefer to opt for the car for such a journey.

Wouldn't it be great if inside of all the investment that is being poured into the self-defeating M74 extension (more motorways = more car journeys = more 'need' for more motorways :roll: ) were to have been invested in Crossrail - Glasgow would have a significantly better quality environment, reduced growth in car journeys with Glasgow upgraded as a travel-to-and-from-work location and established as a national transport hub... and incidentally with the proposed airport rail link it would re-instate Glasgow's status as the national Scottish airport.

Oh well, instead I'm off to travel on the staff benefit scheme known as the Glasgow underground :(
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Postby Alycidon » Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:56 am

Read this extract this morning and I am glad to see that common sense is at last being seen. The old proposals were for a purely local link, but we really need a scheme for Scotland instead of just Glasgow. I cannot see any link to the revised scheme on the SPT website, as I would like to see their approach to the rest of the link, ie up through Bellgrove and on to Springburn. Wonder if anyone had a look at my pet scheme :D http://www.jhowie.force9.co.uk/crossrail.htm I'll waive my fees for a seat on the first train over the link!!
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Postby AlanM » Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:21 pm

Alycidon wrote: Wonder if anyone had a look at my pet scheme :D http://www.jhowie.force9.co.uk/crossrail.htm I'll waive my fees for a seat on the first train over the link!!


Only if it's the BEST seat ? :wink:
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Postby Apollo » Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:03 pm

Taxi driver Robert Thomson, from Milton, said: "I can pick up 50 or so
people a week going between Central and Queen Street and, at £2 a time,
I would be nearly £400 out of pocket at the end of the month.

Funny, that makes me think of police reports where shoplifters and pickpockets fight with owners of what they have just lifted, screaming that they want their stuff back :roll:
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Postby Ally Doll » Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:03 pm

I attended an interesting debate with Sandra White MSP, Bob Wyllie and Alistair Watson on Saturday on Crossrail. Points were made about how other projects like the Borders Rail link had been approved but how the Exec were dragging their feet on Crossrail.

A website had been launched, which might be of interest to folk... http://www.crossrailglasgow.com/
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crossrail

Postby Craigyboy7 » Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:35 am

i just signed up to support crossrail i suggest we all do it!! http://www.crossrailglasgow.com
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Postby lynnski » Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:05 pm

Two things...

james73 wrote: Ibrox & Parkhead Forge are old
stations - they'll be fun on matchdays...


Believe me, as an Ibrox resident, it's not much fun here on match days as it is. :( The rail station would at least take some pressure off the tube.

JamesMc wrote:The Crossrail leaflet is very interesting. One thing that strikes me is that they were going to link up a station with West st Underground. This subway stop has always seemed to me to be the most useless station, who exactly disembarks there? Its the only stop on the entire circle i have never used in 15 years of riding it. Is there anyone on the forum that regularly uses it?


I think that the West St station is well used, by people who work in the area. There are lots of shops, cash & carry's etc, and a few Council buildings. I reckon it's what would be a 'business zone' in Sim City :) Just because it's not a big residential area doesn't mean it's not a useful station. Kinning Park was in a similar situation for a bit until they started building more houses in the area.
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