Statues To Be Removed From George Square

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Re: Statues To Be Removed From George Square

Postby The Egg Man » Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:41 am

Monument wrote:
The Egg Man wrote:OK. Any advance on £250,000?


A quarter of a million pounds to come up with a shit, recycled design. I highly doubt that.


It's in the papers so it must be true, eh?
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Re: Statues To Be Removed From George Square

Postby pingu » Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:53 pm

i read somewhere...think it was the herald, that it cost the council £100,000 to get the project up n running.
im sure it said they paid the winning design £10.000 too
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Re: Statues To Be Removed From George Square

Postby The Egg Man » Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:06 pm

pingu wrote:i read somewhere...think it was the herald, that it cost the council £100,000 to get the project up n running.
im sure it said they paid the winning design £10.000 too



Izzat another £100,000?
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Re: Statues To Be Removed From George Square

Postby Josef » Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:38 pm

The Egg Man wrote:
Monument wrote:
The Egg Man wrote:OK. Any advance on £250,000?


A quarter of a million pounds to come up with a shit, recycled design. I highly doubt that.


It's in the papers so it must be true, eh?


You do realise that you've just disqualified yourself from making any political point in the forseeable future based on a newspaper article there, yes?

Basing opinion on an entirely unrepresentative poll of folk I know, we just want OUR FUCKING SQUARE BACK. All those designs smacked of the, shall we say, not entirely successful revamp of Paisley Gilmour Street.

As to costs : I'm actually in favour of paying the upfront costs of bidders for a contract like this. It should be standard practice. Since the winners are likely to win one bid in (fill in number of your estimation), they load in the losing bids to the winning one.

The scandal is (quite apart from Mori's point) that there was a bidding process in the first place.
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Re: Statues To Be Removed From George Square

Postby pingu » Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:02 pm

The Egg Man wrote:
pingu wrote:i read somewhere...think it was the herald, that it cost the council £100,000 to get the project up n running.
im sure it said they paid the winning design £10.000 too



Izzat another £100,000?


only if you add on under the table payments to those that (mis)organised it ::):

(i missed the earlier post with the herald link :oops: )

maybe it would have went ahead if the panel had picked the one they where told to tho

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/ ... e-project-
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Re: Statues To Be Removed From George Square

Postby Dexter St. Clair » Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:37 pm

Two leaking contenders for taking over the council.
"I before E, except after C" works in most cases but there are exceptions.
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Re: Statues To Be Removed From George Square

Postby old jock » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:43 am

Joesef good point I'd forgotten about the Gilmour St revamp. I remember seeing it for the first time on the Paisley walk (which was great) and it had been such a long time since I'd been out that way before I never knew about it. Fully expecting the old Gilmour St I'd been used to my jaw dropped and NOT in a good way.

I don't know if its me and I'm missing something fundamental or have no architectural understanding BUT does nobody else think that scooshy water snakes or having a shallow pool all with shiny Stainless steel (and if anything qualifies as an oxymoron its the stainless in stainless steel) additions would just be a tad out of place.

The square is surrounded by buildings of varying age but none of them modern in any shape or form (Ok we have Mr King's attics on the GPO buildings or whatever he calls his hotel). Should the square not also reflect the age of the buildings around it and be sympathetic to the general surroundings? I find the idea of these modern revamps a bit crass. I can live with some improved lighting etc: but the designs always seems to go too far like they can't stop tinkering.

One more thing on the statues. I see quite a few requesting that irrelevant English folks be removed and replaced with Jimmy Reid/Sidney Devine/etc etc. My only point here is do you think we would get new bronze statues on solid granite/marble plinths and executed to anything like the quality of what was there previously?

I reckon they'd be made of plastic like the bloody public bins to emulate bronze/granite/marble. That way one worky could clear the square in an hour for one of Gordo's corporate events.

Much as I agree on the idea I want the original statues with their quality back.

The only other way I could think of doing something different would be move Walter replace him with say the Stewart Memorial fountain, a bit like the idea of Glasgow Green which is great. Possibly use statues from some of the other parks with people more relevant, but then you'd start a stooshy on taking stuff oota Kelvingrove and other parks.

My favourate statue is the Lord Bobs one at the top of Kelvingrove. Nothing to do with Lord Roberts he had very little to do with the city and is another wan o' them. However the quality of the statue and the sense of movement it represents I think is superb. I look on it as an art form the guy it represents is irrelevant.

Just a thought

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Re: Statues To Be Removed From George Square

Postby moonbeam » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:44 pm

Who remembers other "Glasgow" street art? The bird thing at the bottom of Buchanan Street. The spining granite ball thing at the corner of Argyle St and Oswald Street. Where are they now?
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Re: Statues To Be Removed From George Square

Postby Monument » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:31 pm

moonbeam wrote:Who remembers other "Glasgow" street art? The bird thing at the bottom of Buchanan Street. The spining granite ball thing at the corner of Argyle St and Oswald Street. Where are they now?


I remember sitting in the Collage Bar watching them install that granite ball. I think it worked for about a week.
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Re: Statues To Be Removed From George Square

Postby Bingo Bango » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:48 pm

This all goes back to the point I was making elsewhere about the lack of will in the council to have a fund or a portion of the original budget to be used for upkeep.

In this, the council's record is even poorer than that for it's competitions....
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Re: Statues To Be Removed From George Square

Postby RapidAssistant » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:51 am

Having just read the thread since my last post - all I will say is.....I rest my case.
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Re: Statues To Be Removed From George Square

Postby Mori » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:16 pm

Item 3 (6 pages)
21st March 2013

GEORGE SQUARE REDEVELOPMENT

Purpose of Report:

To update Members on progress with the proposed redevelopment of George
Square.

Recommendations:

It is recommended that the Committee:
o Notes the report;
o Approves a two-phased approach to delivering the redevelopment
pre- and post-2014 Games;
o Approves the development of Phase 1 as set out in the paper;.
o Notes that a Planning Application will be brought to Planning
Committee in June 2013 with full detail on Phase 1;
o Agrees that a further paper on Phase 2 should be presented to
Executive Committee in the Autumn of 2013.

1. INTRODUCTION

1.1 At its meeting on 7 February 2013 the Executive Committee noted the
conclusion of the George Square Design Competition, and instructed the
Executive Director of DRS to present a further report to the Committee with
alternative refurbishment options that retain the statues, improve the green
spaces, utilities and lighting, and replace the red surface.
1.2 This report outlines the envisaged two-phased approach to delivering a
redeveloped George Square both pre- and post-Commonwealth Games.

2. BACKGROUND

2.1 It is proposed that a two-phased approach is taken in order to maximise the
opportunity for the City. There are a number of factors which have influenced
this:
(i) Glasgow has a fantastic opportunity to present itself to the world during
2014 and this should be maximised during the Commonwealth Games
and its related activities. It will also allow for suitable commemoration of
the outbreak of World War I.
(ii) The time available between now and the Games would present
significant risk when excavating and levelling the Square, which would
be required for any permanent stone solution and for upgrading the
underground services and utilities infrastructure.
(iii) The development of the new City Centre Traffic and Transport Strategy
is well underway and due for completion late 2013. The full
redevelopment of George Square needs to resolve some engineering
issues relating to the approximately 1.4m change in level between the
north and south of the Square. This must be integrated with any new
traffic plan.
(iv) The ongoing uncertainty over EGIP (the Edinburgh Glasgow
Improvement Programme) and the related redevelopment of Queen
Street is leading to significant risk with respect to the timelines for that
project and its implications for George Square. The Council is liaising
directly with Scottish Government and Transport Scotland in order to
resolve this as quickly as possible.
2.2 Progressing Phase 1 will enable the Council to host the Christmas events into George Square for 2013.

3. PRE-2014 OPTION: PHASE 1

3.1 Surface Treatment: Phase 1 works will involve a grey, surface treatment,
using Epoxy Resin which is a hard surface that is Sustainable Urban Drainage
System-compliant. The surface is applied onto a flexible honeycomb structure
and is extremely hard-wearing under icy conditions. This will achieve a notable
improvement in the appearance of the surface and remove the red tarmac
3.2 Additional works: In addition to the surface treatment, a range of other
measures will be implemented to make further improvements which be
incorporated into any longer-term upgrading.
(i) New grass beds: two new grass beds will be re-introduced to the
western side of the Square, designed to be flush with the existing
surface, to restore design integrity and maintain capacity at civic events.
(ii) Feature lighting: will be introduced for statues, the Cenotaph, and
trees within the Square.
(iii) Street furniture: the commemorative benches will remain in George
Square.
(iv) Statue cleaning: a programme to fully clean the eleven statues and
monuments in George Square will be instituted in Phase 1.
3.3 Timetable: The key milestones for Phase 1 as detailed above are:
(i) Design/cost/GCC approvals February to June 2013
(ii) Planning approval June 2013
(iii) Procurement (existing framework) March to June 2013
(iv) On-site mobilisation June 2013
(v) Construction July to September 2013
3.4 Planning: planning permission will be required for Phase 1 works.
Processing time for a local application is usually 6 – 8 weeks.
3.5 Listed Building Consent is not required for any proposed Phase 1 works.

4. POST-2014 OPTION: PHASE 2

4.1 Surface Treatment: It is proposed that a substantial upgrade to the quality of
the surface of the square will be pursued post-games. It is envisaged that this
will use either Porphyry or Granite stone. There are various coloured options or
both Porphyry and Granite, which have each been widely used
throughout the City Centre.
4.2 Additional works: In addition to the surface treatment, a range of other
measures will be developed, but will not entail a radical redesign of George
Square:
(i) Greening Strategy: both permanent and temporary landscaping options
will be explored.
(ii) Services, Utilities and Lighting: a full review of above-ground and
underground services and utilities, as well as lighting and banner columns,
will be instituted with a view to introducing smart infrastructure.
(iii) Statue conservation: a programme to fully conserve the eleven statues
and monuments in George Square will be instituted in Phase 2. The
Council would intend to apply to Historic Scotland for up to 25% of the
associated statue conservation costs, which could secure in excess of
£250,000 towards the overall costs.
(iv) Traffic Management: following completion of the City Centre Traffic and
Transport Strategy, there is the potential to restructure and significantly
reduce traffic in George Square.
4.3 Planning: planning permission will be required for Phase 2 works. Listed
Building Consent may be required; this will be assessed as the plans become
more advanced.
4.4 A report on Phase 2, including details of public consultation on the final surface
treatment and colour, will be presented to the Executive Committee in the
autumn of 2013.

5. COSTS

5.1 The estimated cost of all Phase 1 and Phase 2 works will be £15m as
previously agreed by the Council’s Executive Committee on 13 September
2012.
5.2 The anticipated cost for Phase 1 is £500,000 . Costings for Phase 2 will be
detailed in a future report to Committee.

6. RECOMMENDATIONS

6.1 It is recommended that the Committee:
o Notes the report;
o Approves a two-phased approach to delivering the redevelopment preand
post-2014 Games;
o Approves the devo Notes that a Planning Application will be brought to Planning
Committee in June 2013 with full detail on Phase 1;
o Agrees that a further paper on Phase 2 should be presented to
Executive Committee in the Autumn of 2013.
Development and Regeneration Services
JL/009-13
15/03/13
Appendix 1: Phase 1 surface solutionelopment of Phase 1 as set out in the paper;.

Image
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Re: Statues To Be Removed From George Square

Postby Monument » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:05 am

Interesting. So if I am reading this correctly, the committee is now saying that actually they don't really have time to complete a full revamp of the square before the Commonwealth Games. Pity they didn't work that out before they wasted time and money on the previous 'competition'.

Grey epoxy resin surface treatment aside (sounds like a coating of chewing gum) the interim, Phase 1 development seems reasonable. I am generally in favour of more greenery, cleaned up statues and better lighting.
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Re: Statues To Be Removed From George Square

Postby Josef » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:32 pm

Mori wrote:3. PRE-2014 OPTION: PHASE 1

(iii) Street furniture: the commemorative benches will remain in George
Square.

Image


Were I to be a cynic (i.e. an habitual Glasgow resident, which I'm not - I've only been here for an interrupted total of 22 years), I'd note two things. One, that the benches appear neither in the illustration above nor in the Phase 2 description. Two, that those benches are key to the enjoyment of the square as a public space.

Their absence, and the consequence of that absence being that folk would have to sit on soggy grass for much of the year, being inclined to make folk reluctantly accept that total paving/fountainisation (how's that for coinage?) is a preferable alternative.

I'm sure that that can't possibly be the intention, mind.
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Re: Statues To Be Removed From George Square

Postby MacotheIsles » Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:51 pm

A square is an awfy two-dimensional thing anyway. This one - even in its latest artistic incarnation - looks like a stark stage upon which the red-eye of the looming Barad-dur glares in disapproval. What about having it rise in a shallow hill towards the middle. A wee gentle slope or two, gently wending its way above the grind of traffic and separated vertically somewhat from the dreichness.
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