Weren't they trying to get rid of Glasgow's high rises?

[Bridie]

I wonder to what extent recent fatal fires in high rises will colour housing association's plans re second stage transfer of these blocks.

Probably nothing, its all to do with politiking and money. Its just as hard flinging yourself out of a top flat tenement when it's on fire. The new doors are fire doors too, much better than most doors.

Slighty off topic but I moved into a top tenement flat for a while after living on ground level for yoinks and was concerned about fire safety. This despite or because I was born in a top flat and had to be rescued by a fireman as a child ( carrying my budgie - in cage) Got to wondering ..
Why no outside fire escapes?
Why no water sprinklers?
What are the issues (past proposals) in tenements and fire safety?
Should I have started another thread?

[onyirtodd]

I wonder to what extent recent fatal fires in high rises will colour housing association's plans re second stage transfer of these blocks.

Probably nothing, its all to do with politiking and money. Its just as hard flinging yourself out of a top flat tenement when it's on fire. The new doors are fire doors too, much better than most doors.

I think the Balmoral Bar fire in Edinburgh over the weekend shows that it is still possible to get folks out of top floor tenement flats in a way it seems to impossible in high rise.

It used to be the case that one of the windows in refurbished tenements was kept as sash and casement to facilitate rescue by ladder from outside. I dunno if this is still the case or if modern double glazed units are all designed to give full access to an open window frame. I'd like to think so.

[Bingo Bango]

If tenements are being refurbished throughout, then works will have to be done to ensure that the close ie landings and stairs, and all walls to the landings and stairs provide minimum 1 hour fire protection.

That is to say, if there is a fire in 1 persons house, it should be resisted by the wall build-up for a minimum of 1hr before it can move to the stairs or common areas.

Equally, within each flat, walls should be designed and specified, and constructed, to provide a certain resistance to the transmission of fire to protect the common area ie the hall or passageway to the front door.

This way, should a fire break out, there will be maximum protection for all occupants to reach a zone of safety.

[onyirtodd]

I guess that means that unless fire breaks out in your lobby you should have a decent length of time to get to the front door.

[Bingo Bango]

Correct - the regulations are there to minimize the risk of fire, not eliminate it. It is still the requirement of the owner of the property to ensure safe use of the place such as having all electrics checked, not leaving fires on in the hall, not dousing the curtains with meth and setting them on fire etc etc.

Someone asked above about the lack of second external fire escapes - the layout of traditional tenements just doesnt allow for it. it would require a whole extra piece of tenement to make for an independant escape route that would be used very infrequently.

[onyirtodd]

It still astonishes me that it's an absolute legal requirement for landlords to ensure that an annual gas safety check is carried out whilst there's no similar requirement for owner occupiers

[Bridie]

or even electrics? should they not have some kind of check done periodically by occupants/factor?
What about those steel constructed fire exits that you see in New York tenements - wonder if they were ever considered?
When I moved back into a tenement (top flat - furthest away from the stairs) my door was frequently blocked by neighbours bin bags sometimes left for days If that had happened in the tenements when I was growing up there would've been hell to pay!!

[onyirtodd]

or even electrics? should they not have some kind of check done periodically by occupants/factor?

No doubt some lekki will tell me I'm wrong but I believe a lot of faith is put in fuses and circuit breakers to protect from fire/ explosion. Gas appliances don't have that safeguard.

Just a wee aside. I had lunch in a recently refurbished Ellisland Hotel in Ayr last week. Thoroughly recommended. Lovely place, great food, immaculate service and about 2/3 the price of a similar meal in Glasgow.

However, being a sharp-eyed so and so I noticed part of the refurb included brand new 'old fashioned' round three pin wall sockets. I was about to ask when my taxi arrived. Anyone think what they might be used for?

[Its_a_gamp]

However, being a sharp-eyed so and so I noticed part of the refurb included brand new 'old fashioned' round three pin wall sockets. I was about to ask when my taxi arrived. Anyone think what they might be used for?

I saw them in a hotel once (but modern ones), and was told went I asked about them that the hotel appliances eg vacuums had rounded pin plugs and it was to stop customers plugging in their own appliances, eg lagtops, hairdryers etc -( maybe they consider the cables a health and safety risk or hairdryers a fire risk, hotels that supply hairdryers etc. get them checked as safe once a year).)

[onyirtodd]

However, being a sharp-eyed so and so I noticed part of the refurb included brand new 'old fashioned' round three pin wall sockets. I was about to ask when my taxi arrived. Anyone think what they might be used for?

I saw them in a hotel once (but modern ones), and was told went I asked about them that the hotel appliances eg vacuums had rounded pin plugs and it was to stop customers plugging in their own appliances, eg lagtops, hairdryers etc -( maybe they consider the cables a health and safety risk or hairdryers a fire risk, hotels that supply hairdryers etc. get them checked as safe once a year).)

That may be an answer but these had regular 3 pin square sockets reight beside them.

[My Kitten]

I think the Balmoral Bar fire in Edinburgh over the weekend shows that it is still possible to get folks out of top floor tenement flats in a way it seems to impossible in high rise.

The blocks I live in have hard wired smoke detectors which go straight to the concierge station. So that should help speed up the reaction times for fire brigade etc. I can testify (and my kitchen) to the speed of this!!!

Nothing is fool proof.

[Bingo Bango]

What about those steel constructed fire exits that you see in New York tenements - wonder if they were ever considered?

I mentioned that above, but didnt really explain my point that well.

To give tenements, or any other new build block in Glasgow a second means of escape would be problematic simply due to the space requirements. Now, obviously the steel staircases are on the outside of the building, but where would you access these from? Taking a normal tenement as a start, there is one common area - the stairwell. If that is on fire, there is no real way out. However as it is the only common part of the tenement, accessible by all parties, the only place you could put an access to the new steel escape stair would be from that stair also, thereby negating the purpose of a second means of escape.

The other option is to put these staircases at the back of the tenement block and have them directly accessible from each flat. this would mean 2 stairs per block, 1 either side of the close, and if you think that some tenements have a separate flat to the front, then suddenly the building is covered in steel staircases.

By the way - it is not actually required to provide a second means of escape in residential properties until you are above a certain height.

[aland]

if you are seriously scared about fire in a tenement then get a 15kg dry powder extinguisher, that should clear though to get you out. the problem is that 95% of folk dont have a small extinguisher in their kitchen or a fire blanket thus most house fires develop so fast, yet in the case of the old chip pan a fire blanket would have dealt with it in no time. also a lot of folk that even have a bottle dont know how to use it

yes dry powder makes a mess but it is a lot less than a fire and it is bloody effective

[Bingo Bango]

That is an excellent suggestion - everyone should have something to fight a fire with especially in the kitchen.

[onyirtodd]

That is an excellent suggestion - everyone should have something to fight a fire with especially in the kitchen.

It's an excellent idea but when you recall it's difficult to get people to pay to replace the batteries in their 'provided for free' smoke detectors................