Identity Cards

[turbozutek]

I wish the UK could detatch itself from the USA's bottom.

Chris...

[DMcNay]

:-(

I wish the UK could detatch itself from the USA's bottom.

Chris...

By "UK" I take it you mean "Tony Blair"

and by "USA" I take it you mean George Dubya Bush?

[turbozutek]

:-(

I wish the UK could detatch itself from the USA's bottom.

Chris...

By "UK" I take it you mean "Tony Blair"

and by "USA" I take it you mean George Dubya Bush?

Not really. I mean the policy trends. If Clinton was in the whitehouse and Howard was in number ten we would STILL be following blindly.

For some reason we think our 'Cousins' over the pond are the be all and end all and anything they do we are bound to follow... Even down to the working culture.

Problem is, are we modelling ourselves against the best society choice ? I think not. I would prefer less paranoia. Less war. Less working hours, more holidays.

Chris...

[AMcD]

I wasn't being serious earlier, just interested in the response. I'm in the "no thanks" category as well, and agree with nodrog's sentiments. Did your iris scans actually work? Everyone I've spoken to that did the trial said it couldn't scan correctly, most of them wore glasses.

Isn't it an EU idea as well? UKIP anyone?

[nodrog]

My iris scans did work, though I don't wear glasses so that might be why!

[Speedbird]

I do not WANT a card, and If I get forced into having one, I'll destroy it.

1984, but only 20 years later.

[Apollo]

Nodrog's right about the skewing of the survey results, this has also come up elsewhere.

Those if us that have had the benefit of advanced maths at university or similar maths backgrounds know how to read and accept 'statistical analysis'. Hot and valuable when done correctly, but when preprogrammed like that to produce the desired result when presented as a later report, separate from its method, an indicator of the (un?)reliability and expertise (spin?) of those producing it.

Speedbird, worst case scenario and they do arrive, you really don't want to destory it unless you can afford to. You have to pay for it, and its renewal as required, plus the fines being bandied about for non-compliance are in the range £1000 to £2500 dependent on offence. And you can bet they'll make examples, especially at the start, and "I lost it" won't cut any ice. Remember your (and I know you don't have one) valid tax disc can be lying on your dash, but you will get fined for failing to display as it's not located at the bottom corner of the windscreen.

[Speedbird]

Speedbird, worst case scenario and they do arrive, you really don't want to destory it unless you can afford to. You have to pay for it, and its renewal as required, plus the fines being bandied about for non-compliance are in the range £1000 to £2500 dependent on offence


*That is just bloody ludicrous!!


The sooner President Blair and his cronies are voted out the better (but what is the real alternative??).


I bet they make it so that you cannot go anywhere without showing one too - the b*stards!

I have nothing to hide, but that is not the point!

Never voted for Labour in my life, and I am not about to start now, that's for sure!!*

[JayKay]

To quote an earlier post on this issue:

Labour -> socialist -> communist -> Russian -> eastern (bloc) -> East Germany -> Stasi -> UK

labour gave up on socialism a long time ago. But that doesnt stop them moving towards an authoritarian state that even the Tories at their power wouldnt have dared consider out loud.

In theory I like the idea of ID cards. If it makes society a better place by eveyone carrying a small card it's surely not too much to ask.

If the individual wants to benefit from participating in society then surely the state (as the formal mechanism of society) has the right to ensure that those benefits are given fairly and appropriately.

If the individual has to carry a card to show that they have the right to the benefits of society that hadly seems a major inconvenience, and has possible benefits in that it would eliminate the need to carry work ID, cheque guarantee card, passport etc.

Right now I have a press card, gym membership, cheque card, drivers license, union membership, work pass and AA card in my wallet. 7 pieces of ID.

Obviously there's a question on whether you actually want this information centralised, because you can bet that is where it is going.

But the principle reason the argument falls down on is whether or not you trust the state. Are they really looking out for the best interests of the individual and will they apply any legislation equally and without prejudice?

At least under socialism the theory was that all people were equal, and the state represented the people and the people had obligations to the state to ensure that it was a representation of the will of the people. There's not even that fig leaf of ideaology left in Labour's plans.

[Apollo]

Great post JayKay, probably enough reasoned meat in there to start a whole new topic, but that would be getting too serious

I seriously doubt anyone will carry any less cards if there is an ID card, probably more, as I've not seen any publicity that says anything about replacing current cards. Big business certainly won't share their info/resource anyway, and the banks, stores, employers etc, will still want to issue you with their uniquely identifiable 'public sign of belonging'.

Having had 'socialism' (which means as many things to as many people unfortunately) promoted round my from an early age by my grandfather, I had to wake up and look at what it meant. All I've ever seen is a system doomed to failure as it can't support itself. If everyone is really getting a share, how does the state justify its bigger share. The USSR and East Germany (and god forbid, North Korea) show what happens when 'the many' become 'equal' in the eyes of the state. The few laugh all the way to bank.

Getting too serious now

I have a little thoery as to how Labour win elections: they propose manifestos and policies that are broadly the same as the Conservatives. The logic? Nobody seems to want to be seen to vote Conservative, so if they can't see much difference, they'll plump for Labour

[Speedbird]

AISI, no matter who you vote for, roughly the same will happen anyway, unless some strange small party or one of those obnoxious rascist parties get in, and everyone who isn't a pasty white person or doesn't have a pure British bloodline as long as a north sea oil pipe gets chucked out of the country (it probably would aply to most of them).

BNP et al - a bunch of 'Nancys.. sorry, 'Nazis in suits, trying unsuccesfuly to kid us that they are really a nice bunch of people.

Sorry, but someone should tell them that life is too short to go about hating everyone.

[Apollo]

I always liken the winning of a general election by one of the wee minority parties (and I exclude the bigots and fanatics from this so it's a fun entry) as handing the keys of the Porsche to the kids just after they turned 17 and passed their driving test and had been to the pub to celebrate.

Form your own opinion, or a queue for the first plane/ferry

[Speedbird]

I always liken the winning of a general election by one of the wee minority parties (and I exclude the bigots and fanatics from this so it's a fun entry) as handing the keys of the Porsche to the kids just after they turned 17 and passed their driving test and had been to the pub to celebrate.

*He he, yeah.*

Form your own opinion,

*When both of the main parties are saying basically the same thing, it is a bit difficult at times*.

or a queue for the first plane/ferry [/quote]

What, the Renfrew Ferry??

[shuttle534]

Just saw them talking about the cards on the telly. They are now planning mobile units for us to visit at our leisure, at a designated point and time. Where we can give them all the biometric data that they need to make the world a safer place.
They have gone on and on about how it will help stop terrorism but then go off to fight the "war on terror" in another country. Go figure that one out.
But when presented with this argument they change the goal posts. Not a little but a lot. Now it's to stop people stealling from the state. Benifit Cheats, Illegal Imigrants, Etc. They make it sound like that is what is bringing this country down. Well surprise. They also know that although Mrs/Mr Bloggs working a job on the side and getting paid in cash, is not hoarding this money away under their mattress hopping to cause economic instability, but spending it......and therfore actually helping someone elses business. Granted, it may be the local Publican or Tobacco Lord but thats swings and roundabouts.
The real people that we need to fear in this country, at this time are those who are perpetuating the myth of freedom. THE GOVERNMENT.
I have a passport.
I have a Drivers Licence.
I have a National Insurance Card/Number.
I have a Birth Certificate.
And one day I hope to have a Death Certificate.
I hope that the place of Death will be as far from here as is possible at that time.

What more do they want of us....Blood. Almost... "just a little saliva sample please, £90 for the card.... Oh and could you please bend over so we can measure the diameter of the rising moon.
merci beaucoup"
"Please send in Vanilla Ice on your way out."

[Apollo]

The "terrorists" must be curling up in bed and laughing themselves to sleep every night now, as the War on Terror develops.

One of the doctrines of the Good Guys is that you never leave a team member who is wounded or maimed, and I probably like be in the side that has that rule.

The downside of this is that the enemy learns this, and instead of deploying tactics that kill their opponents, a strategy that requires precise strikes, and only removes a few players from the game, the deploy strategies that are aimed at crippling as many of the opposition as possible. This means they remove the players they wound, and a similar number of able-bodies players who have to take care of them, leaving only a few fit and overworked players to oppose them.

There was semi-satirical program tucked away late one night over the holiday which looked at the (remains of ) the country's Civil Defence program, crippled sinde the end of the Cold War, bt surely sorely needed now in the light of possible dirty attacks on the public.

Two particular facts fell out of this program: One planner who asked for increased funding in the light of the threat of such and attack was awarded... just under £350 over the usual allocation for his town. Another planner (I forget his area, let's say the size of Birmingham for the sake of it) looked at the existing plan, decided what needed to be done to bring it up to date, and promptly resigned and went to live in France after he got the answer from central government.