Identity Cards

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Postby trickntoots » Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:01 am

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Postby scotia47 » Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:47 am

Apollo wrote:I wouldn't count on it, they may not come into force as such, but unless the bill is defeated, they will be forced to spend pots of our money pursuing the idea and technology, or lose face.

The sad thing about it is, if they'd been more reasonable and less alarmist, then they could have crept the whole whole thing in by applying proper stealth.

Passports have gone down the route already, and are accepted world-wide.

Majority of folk have them, and they could have issued free passports to us non-travellers, chargeble if we wish to leave the country.

The technology is already in place, so could have been adapted for "entitlement" use, and additional data stored. I understand the passport has greater data strorage than was ever considered for the ID card, as it was supposed to use compression technology and smart data.

New biometric or other technology could have been sneaked in on renewal, or a claim that upgrade revisions were needed.

That's only a minute's thought, and even that makes you wonder why the had to make it so controversial.


FFS Apollo, don't give them any ideas. :P
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Postby paladin » Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:05 am

Apollo wrote:Back on topic


A separate survey of 2,000 respondents showed only 8% believed the data would be safe from criminals, and 23% had no faith that the government would not misuse personal data. Only 5% trusted private firms to run a National ID register.


Whilst 64% said "No" to ID cards being introduced.
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Postby Sir Roger DeLodgerley » Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:42 am

Yes but 64% said no to a Labour government and look what happened.
There is no opinion, however absurd, which men will not readily embrace as soon as they can be brought to the conviction that it is generally adopted.
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Postby DMcNay » Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:51 am

Meaningless statistics were up 23% on last month......
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Postby Fossil » Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:40 am

Visually it’s impressive


Image

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Postby DMcNay » Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:54 am

But what'll it mean to the man in the street? Let's ask him:

Image

"Bring back hanging, that's what I always say..."

So there we have it. Conclusive, you might say.
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Postby Bex Bissell » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:59 pm

Perhaps this is another way to get through some kind of electronic ID.

As of the 31st August the E111 form for travel health insurance in europe will no longer be available and will be replaced by the new European Health Insurance Card.
This change has been driven by an amendment to the reciprocal health agreement by the EU stipulating that each EU member state offering the reciprocal health agreement must change to issuing an electronic E111 card.
Current E111's will remain valid till 31st Dec 05.
Oh, the humanity!
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Postby Apollo » Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:15 am

Now I get to say 'Told you so'.

The latest Home Office advice, published 09/09/05, is now referring to New Offences announced in 2003, included as part of the Identity Card Bill. At least they were big enought to also mention they had to re-introduce the Bill in 2005.

http://www.identity-theft.org.uk/

On the last page, 'What is being done?'

The new offence referred to is simple possession or control of false identity documents, including genuine documents.

Don't go borrowing somebody's wallet/jacket, or be too clever with that shiny new laser printer :)

I wouldn't knock the identity protection stuff, but considering a lot of these new offences cast a wider net than existing legislation, is it worth it? Consider that they don't seem to be able to cope properly with the numbers they're apprehending with current laws, what will they do if they have more bodies to deal with?
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Postby Bex Bissell » Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:23 am

Why did I have my eye scanned at JFK??
The camera takes your picture then as you make small talk with the chap at the desk you can see his PC processing and the screen lights up with "GOOD" in green letters.
I was wanting to ask what was it doing but its one of those "you just dont know when to shut your mouth" questions.
Philidelphia had already recieved my passport details from the UK whilst I was enroute and as no welcoming comittee was there to ghost me off to camp xray rather than Manhattan I would imagine that I passed the let him in test.
Or perhaps passport control is sponsered by Optical Xpress, and if it came up bad, then they would try and sell me some specs, it was the US and they never miss a trick to punt you something.
Perhaps there is a few possible results "GOOD, BAD, GLAUCOMA, SQUINT, LAZY"
Oh, the humanity!
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Postby scotia47 » Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:10 pm

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Postby Bex Bissell » Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:27 am

Oh, the humanity!
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Postby KonstantinL » Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:54 am

Here's my opposition to ID cards.

Does this country really need an other 60 million terrible, terrible mug shot photographs?

I think we all know the answer to this.
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Postby duncan » Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:47 pm

slightly off-topic scary story:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondo ... 32,00.html

The train enters the station. Uniformed police officers appear on the platform and surround me. They must immediately notice my French accent, still strong after living more than 12 years in London.

They handcuff me, hands behind my back, and take my rucksack out of my sight. They explain that this is for my safety, and that they are acting under the authority of the Terrorism Act. I am told that I am being stopped and searched because:

· they found my behaviour suspicious from direct observation and then from watching me on the CCTV system;

· I went into the station without looking at the police officers at the entrance or by the gates;

· two other men entered the station at about the same time as me;

· I am wearing a jacket "too warm for the season";

· I am carrying a bulky rucksack, and kept my rucksack with me at all times;

· I looked at people coming on the platform;

· I played with my phone and then took a paper from inside my jacket.


he was lucky he didn't run for the train, otherwise it could have been fatal.
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Postby Apollo » Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:32 pm

Now I get to say 'Told you so'. (again)

The Government has tabled an amendment to the ID Card Bill which could be used to allow the ID Card database to contain "sensitive personal data" – a term which is defined to include details of criminal and medical records.

This prospect reverses the position stated in the Government's public consultation documents in which it confirmed that none of the information in the ID Card database falls within the category of sensitive personal data as defined by the Data Protection Act.
At the moment the items of sensitive personal data in the ID Card database are very limited. For example, the central database will include a photograph of the ID card holder. If that photograph reveals a certain medical condition, for instance, Downs Syndrome or blindness, then clearly these photographic data reveal sensitive personal data. Additionally, sensitive personal data would be processed if photographic identity data were used in a racial context – for example, if the authorities searched the database to distinguish, say, an Afro-Caribbean Fred Bloggs from a Caucasian Fred Bloggs. Sensitive personal data could also be revealed if the address of the Cardholder relates to a mental hospital or a prison.

Sensitive personal data will also be contained as the central registry database is to contain "access records". The Bill states that these "access records" include "particulars of every occasion on which a person has accessed an individual's entry and of the person who accessed it". Thus if an individual with an ID card uses an NHS service which requires a check on entitlement for free treatment, there will be a record in the ID Card database which describes that check – in particular 'first outpatient clinics' which has been identified by Health Ministers.

The record of which clinic the patient attends, however, can give inferential detail of the individual's medical condition. After all, patients who attend at a sexually transmitted diseases outpatient clinic or a pre-natal maternity clinic are not queuing for a flu jab.


More details here.

As far as I can see, the government are now playing their cards ( :roll: ) very carefully. Now that they've managed to play on the terrorism aspect to get the thing in place, rather than fight to get all they want in place from the start, they're using the 'Steady Drip' approach to quietly slide in all the little controversial bits, until the build the beast they want by stealth, over the years this project will run.

Sleepwalking Britain indeed.
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