IDS calls "War!" on the Great Unwashed.

[Josef]

I've said this elsewhere but it warrants saying again ... we need to take a leaf from the Frenchmans' citizen handbook.

They went batshit crazy and started riots because they were moving the retirement age up to 62 from 60 and yet here they're raising it to 68.. and not a peep out of the plebeians.

Actually, no. They're increasing the early retirement age from 60 to 62. The state pension age is being raised from 65 to 67. Other than that, point taken, and all that.

[munroman]

I can see the arguments both ways (hopefully).

My daughter dropped out of Uni, and couldn't get a job, every day I could see a little of her enthusiasm draining away and had there been some sort of way where she was 'encouraged' to do something useful, I am sure that it would have helped give her some sense of purpose.

Luckily, she has ended up in a great new job, and has regained her confidence.

I can also see the rightful fear, given Mrs T's legacy in Scotland, that ill meaning employers will merely fire a permanent employee, then use the cheap labour afforded by the new scheme to increase their profits.

I can also see that Glasgow is filthy, it needs a good clean that has not been getting done, even when money was not an issue for councils.

Personally, I do not consider it demeaning to pick up litter, I regularly do it as a volunteer, so who is so high and mighty to be 'above' this?

It is recognised that meaningful work gives people a sense of purpose, as well as giving them social contact, I would suggest that there is a huge amount of meaningful work which needs done in Glasgow.

I also think that the Benefits system has become a monster due to being used to manipulate unemployment figures, however it seems that for some 'Benefit' has become 'Entitlement without Responsibility', to the extent of hearing a bizarre radio phone in, where a wheelchair bound guy who held down a full time job was, in essence, accused of 'letting the side down by working', by a lady, who it transpired, had legs too weak to lift her arse off the sofa, and I don't think her legs were weak in any normal sense. She used the term ' I failed my medical' because she had been assessed as fit to work, I am sorry but I would say that she 'Passed' her medical, or is that a twisted view?

As for France, just have a look at the Billions they have purloined from Haiti for leaving their Empire, and ask if that is the Role Model you aspire to?

[Fossil]

Most are work shy Lazy Bastards

[Doorstop]

How surprising Foss .. you're not normally noted for sweeping generalisations.

[Dave]

He has a point though, the only people to get hit by the 'draconian' measures set out by the Con-Dem party are the work shy. If you're willing to work then......go work...if not then......hold out and wait see

[Lucky Poet]

Trolltastic.

[Boxer6]

And who is to say someone is "workshy" then? How do you prove such a thing? By a DWP so-called medical? Has anyone posting herein ever actually had a DWP medical?

As some may know, I work as a CPN in North Glasgow. I deal every single day with people suffering from major mental health issues, many of whom would be totally incapable of holding down any kind of job even if you held a nuclear bomb next to their heads.

So, any guesses what's happening now the ConDems are ramping up the pressure on DWP spending? Yep, target the needy and vulnerable, that's what. By insisting that everyone attends their pitiful excuse for a medical (often carried out by barely-trained, paid-by-the-person nurses ~ my ex-wife used to do it, for the contractors .. Atos Health), and who ask loaded and one-sided questions of people designed to achieve the "right" result , often by subterfuge or outright lies.

Now I'm not about to pretend that every single person who is seen by mental health services is necessarily not fit to work - but many aren't, yet Atos/DWP take absolutely NO notice of the fucking horrendously and needlessly complex forms they send out to all claimants of benefits, and ask US to comment on. Why ask for diagnoses and prognoses for people, if you're not going to pay any attention to the answers? (Well, we know why, but you get the point).

Going to stop now, before I say something sackable.

[Dave]

And who is to say someone is "workshy" then? How do you prove such a thing?

Offer someone a job that pays a basic wage.

[Dexter St. Clair]

He has a point though, the only people to get hit by the 'draconian' measures set out by the Con-Dem party are the work shy. If you're willing to work then......go work...if not then......hold out and wait see

If you're willing to work but have been on the broo for more than six months it's most unlikely you will get a job. It's even more unlikely when more of this year's workforce sign on next year and more of the disabled are moved onto JSA.
A4E however might be looking for more workshy advisers as they will be given even more public money to find "placements" for them. Maybe the various Daves on here could offer placements. I think the division could be a £1 an hour to the claimant, £1 to the placeholder and £3 to A4E. Get in there.

In general families are losers regardless of employment. Single parents with an income of over £43000 are being hit, so are the disabled: Vodaphone is not being hit, neither are Monaco Phils which means that some SMEs are carrying more of the tax burden that they should but I presume you know that.

In general families are losers regardless of employment.

[Dave]

Everyone is going to lose for now DSC, it's just the way it has to be. The party is over, the gravy train was never going to run forever. Give it a few years for the clever people to put the book right and then it'll be back to party time, then another hangover, then more party etc etc etc.

[Dexter St. Clair]

Everyone is going to lose for now DSC,

You're joking. Everyone?

Lord Young, Danny Alexander, Prince Andrew... insert your own example of a layabout landed lucky.

[DickyHart]

Im lucky i had an employer who supported me through my illness, im back at work now and still supported, but it when it came to to the nitty gritty and my sick pay ran out. I had to rely on benefits to get me through. I was made to feel like a beggar looking for something i was not entitled to, and the folk looking at my benefit claim constantly called wanting more info. Even though they had information from my GP(who was getting pissed off at the amount of information requests) and my onocologist who is one of the top guys in europe. Was telling me week after week that he was getting messages as well.

Thankfully im savvy about the forms that I had to fill in, which asks the same question in many different ways. I even got a phone call once to ask if i can carry a 3pound bag of potatoes. what that had to do with dealing with chemotherapy, still dumbfounds me.

yes there are folk out there taking the piss, and i feel we are getting better at dealing with that, but genuine folk are suffering through this. is it a small price to pay...for the genuinely sick
i dunno, but my point is they must use common sense, everyones cases are different.

[The Egg Man]

.................

Personally, I do not consider it demeaning to pick up litter, I regularly do it as a volunteer, so who is so high and mighty to be 'above' this?

It is recognised that meaningful work gives people a sense of purpose, as well as giving them social contact, I would suggest that there is a huge amount of meaningful work which needs done in Glasgow.

.........................

There's a world of difference betwen volunteering, which many of us do on a regular or occasional basis, and the 'stick without the carrot' tactic being proposed by the Tory bastards - the people who put the n in cuts. Remember the adage "I'd rather have one volunteer than 10 pressed men".

Meaningful work does give people a sense of purpose but it has to be meaningful. I'm not sure sweeping the streets counts as meaningful or prepares you in any way for a normal working life.

[penguinmonkey]

suppose I should balance up the trolling by giving a view from the other side.

Here are the new Con-Dem anthems as performed by the almighty Dead Kennedys

[banjo]

right thats it kicking off in london,i was going to suggest we show solidarity with the sassenachs and attack the tory party headquarters up here but then i remembered my parents telling me that you should never vandalise a phone box.