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Glasgow's iron age hill fort?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:02 pm
by jock78
Glasgow Necropolis is bounded by Firpark Sreet and Wishart Street being is separated from St Mongo's former church site by the line of the Molindinar Burn now under Wishart street.
Recently The hill on which it stands has been referred to as 'The Druid Hill' I have seen no proof of this suggestion, or know of any archaeological results from this location but, knowing the area well, I recently examined an ordinance survey sheet of the area and came to a surprising conclusion.

The hill is formed by a 'volcanic plug' of the 'crag and tail' form with much of the rock outcrop quarried away in the past. Many such geological formations such as this in Central Scotland such as Dumbarton Rock, Cairn Papple, Traprain Law etc. have been occupied in the Iron Age and show clear indications in the rings of earthwork fortifications around their contours.

Taking another look at The Necropolis, the same earthwork fortifications are clearly seen in plan.
One can argue that the graves have been set-out thus as a convenience, but I would suggest that, given Glasgow's early origin, it would be surprising that such a site would not be occupied and suitable fortifications built. Indeed, it is difficult to find such a volcanic structure in Scotland which was not so occupied.

Re: Glasgow's iron age hill fort?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:03 pm
by Guacho
Ronnie....... ::):

Re: Glasgow's iron age hill fort?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:42 am
by Grahame
Jock, welcome to Druid Glasgow! ::):

You have cut right to the heart of the Mystery with your observation about the Necropolis.
The Necropolis was once known as Dun Chattan and was the site of a Druid sanctuary dedicated to the moon at the time St. Kentigern arrived in town, according to renegade archaeologist Ludovic McLellan Mann.
There's a related thread where you can download a scan of Mann's theories on Earliest Glasgow here. It's fascinating stuff, but his theories are more than a wee bit controversial as he never revealed any of his sources.

Mann also excavated the Cochno Stone and Knapper's Farm, it's worth checking out the rest of that Druid Glasgow thread for more information.

The Necropolis is also at the heart of the Glasgow Network of Aligned Sites described in Harry Bell's 1984 work 'Glasgow's Secret Geometry'. There are a couple of posts about it on that other thread.

Re: Glasgow's iron age hill fort?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:21 am
by jock78
Hi Grahame,
Thanks for the interesting reference to source of 'Druid hill' label.
The former name 'Dun Chatten' ( hill of the cat?),struck an immediate memory to me as there is a street of that name just south of the site.
I looked at the information from Mann's work but it would seem that he did not appear to record his excavation work in the detailed manner that could be re-examined at a later date?

Did you look at the multi-ring earthworks on the hill in plan? You can see them clearly in google earth, or I can post a plan showing these in a 1913 OS sheet. Another local name for the area to the east of the hill and running up from Wishart Street was 'The Sheepie'. I've no idea why but it was known as this when I played there in the late forties.

John

Re: Glasgow's iron age hill fort?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:01 pm
by HelenD
Aligned Sites are joined by "ley lines". We drive our flying saucers along them to wind up the hippies.

Re: Glasgow's iron age hill fort?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:30 am
by jock78
Helen,
not a very helpfull comment.
This was a reference to a probable iron age fort, nothing to do with ley lines. Anyone can convince themselves that there are possible lines between geological features which often have a natural explanations.

John

Re: Glasgow's iron age hill fort?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:27 am
by Grahame
Hi Jock,

I do somewhere have a large-scale OS map of the Necropolis on which the contouring is clearly visible. But I've always thought it was unclear how much of this is original and how much resulted from Victorian re-sculpting of the hill to accommodate the graves?

Re: Glasgow's iron age hill fort?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:19 pm
by jock78
Hi Grahame,
thanks for your comment.
I have been researching many such hill forts in Central Scotland for a power point presentation and I do not know of any one of these which had not, in fact be so occupied. Given Glasgow's early origin, St Mungo's known conflict with the locals ( he was banished to North Wales at one point), and the proximity of the site to old Glasgow, I thing this is almost conclusive.

I have been gathering what information that I can on dark age conflicts, where such data that is available points to considerable conflict, between Scots, Britons and Germanic intruders- obviously people must have relied on such sites for places of refuge.

I would be interested in any historical reference to the site before it was a necropolis. Why it was not otherwise developed( it would have made an excellent site for a large Villa), or was it part of the church glebe land for instance?

I hope that I vave attached a site plan but, if not will try again.

Best regards,

John

Re: Glasgow's iron age hill fort?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:33 pm
by jock78
Sorry Grahame, it does not like docx, and doc files- cannot attach plan,
John

Re: Glasgow's iron age hill fort?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:12 am
by Grahame
jock78 wrote:Sorry Grahame, it does not like docx, and doc files- cannot attach plan,

Indeed they won't. One of the mods will correct me if I'm wrong, but generally you can only host image files on external websites like photobucket and link to them from here. Check this thread for instructions.

Re: Glasgow's iron age hill fort?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:45 am
by Sharon
Hi Graeme and Jock - I should really delete that photo posting advice and update it with, we now will allow you to directly upload photos to HG and you dont need to host them elsewhere!

By using the "upload attachment" tab below.
You can attach images
appreciative-otter.jpg


And documents
destination_kit_1_0.pdf
(62.66 KiB) Downloaded 394 times

Re: Glasgow's iron age hill fort?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:47 am
by Sharon
jock78 wrote:Sorry Grahame, it does not like docx, and doc files- cannot attach plan,
John


Give it a go again Jock, I have tweaked a few settings so you should be able to attach .doc and .docx and pdf's now :)

Re: Glasgow's iron age hill fort?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:41 pm
by jock78
Hill fort image, trying again!
John- can't see it yet, the site needs to be seen in plan to be understood
druid hill.docx
(457.15 KiB) Downloaded 470 times

Re: Glasgow's iron age hill fort?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:24 pm
by Grahame
Hey, well done Sharon! I didn't know we could do that on phpbb.

Re: Glasgow's iron age hill fort?

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:50 am
by jock78
Hi Graeme,
thanks for the reference to NLS historical maps and the name 'Dunchatten'.

The term 'Dun' really clinches it as it is old Britonic (old welsh) for 'fort' such as at Dunbarton.

I found the attached map from NLS which shows the site of Dunchatten as a mound even higher than the necropolis and well to the east of it.
What appears to be the case is that all the 'Plug' area running east from Firpark Street has been worked out in the 19C, the ground then levelled off by infilling with refuse as was typical. As kids we used to find heaps of ornate clay pipes which had been end tips behind Alexandra Transports' depot. It is amazing how extensive the quarry had been and where the material was then transported and used.

John