G8 rally

[PlasticDel]

Practical terms? Bono does loads of work IN Africa. He's not Madonna (who, by the way, has never been to Africa and I can agree with your comment on their level of hypocracy when it come sto the likes of her) that's why you don't read about him being over there.
He doesn't do it for the record sales.
Mind you even U2's record sales encourage people to take action by supporting War child, joining Amnesty International etc...

Get the internet in there and open things up.

Sorry... Is that the dumbest idea ever?
How do you suppose they execute this masterplan?
It's difficult enough to get clean drinking water to the places that nead it. What are they gonna do with thousands of miles of fibre-optic and Cat 5 cabling? Or whatever the hell they use. Obviously you know that the people who are most affected by this don't have access to a computer, they don't have running water, central heating, and electricity.
The problem isn't poverty by our standards it's POVERTY by ANYONE'S Standards. What are they gonna do with the internet???

Are they gonna read on the internet what we are(or rather are not) doing to help? Do you want them to read it and be more GRATEFUL????? Maybe they should read the 8 pages of this thread? Think that'll cheer them up no end? NO! All that's asked is sign a petition or send an e-mail to your MP or Prime Minister or show them that you care by going for a peacful march through your capital city! But some people can't even manage that. maybe they're better off not knownig.

Yes education plays a huge part in the fight for the African people. Not only in Africa but people all over the world need to be educated about it.

But the internet? One step at a time big man, eh.

Or perhaps they could lend their support into raising awareness about the destruction of a hundred year old building 6months ago in Glasgow. Pages and pages of concern over a building. With the 'raise awareness' argument there too. Is this a more worthwhile cause? Do yuo guys have more hope in saving buildings than saving lives? IS this a bigger concern???http://www.hiddenglasgow.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1550

[Apollo]

Well, if you want to call a spade a spade (NOTE, SMALL s! for anyone that wants to mis-quote me) let's get down to the fundamental problem. As long as the equatorial, hot, dry and drought ridden areas of the world are populated by people have no indusrty or meand of raising independent finance, they will always be dependent on handouts. The scenario will not go away, unless they discover a few billion barrels of oil under their feet.

All the aid in the world is a waste of time, as giving people with no fuel tractors to work their land would be. Good idea to a European, mystifyingly stupid to the farmer with no source of fuel.

Let's face it, according to the greenies, Global Warming is going to make these places uninhabitable in a matter of decades, so the really smart thing would be to start the move now, instead of pouring resources in there to let them stay there, unless that's the grand plan.

The internet mention (which didn't hint at high end CAT5/6/optical or whatever) was more of a metaphor. The real point being that the people do not know what is happening in their own country, let alone the world, and are unaware that what scant resources there may be are going straight into the hip pocket of their rulers, who appear to be able to instigate the slaughter and maiming of thousands with impunity.

[PlasticDel]

Few resources? What about what we consider luxury resources... Diamond mines?
Hope it wasn't me, I don't recall misquoting you...

Mostly I'm just disgusted at the contemptous and pessimistic views of some people.
Which like I touched on before is typical of the mindset here with quite a few. A lot of intelligent people. Just not helluva smart.

Guys!!! Read what they want. Fuck the newspapers! Forget the nonbelievers!

Between them (the IMF & the WTO), they're forcing poor countries to open up their markets to foreign imports and businesses, and sell off public services like electricity - even when this isn't in their interest. They're also banning poor countries from supporting vulnerable farmers and industries, while wealthy nations continue to support their own.

http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/
Read the manifesto: http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/docs/manifesto.pdf

[HollowHorn]

Sure its true of us all, but the level of hypocracy of these people is what I find hard to stomach. How far past the sentiment are THEY going?

Not sure about that Sharon, was that not the original purpose of Rock & Roll Music, to push for change? I only know that if I asked myself what have I done to make Poverty History the answer would be a short: "fuck all". Shame on me then if I derided others for their efforts, no matter what their personal circumstances were.

[SnakeCorp]

Given the profligacy of the outrageously rich - bono and co... do you really think they are doing all they could? Ok, they are raising awareness. Great. Valid and worthwhile. But how much are they doing in practical terms? At the same time as prancing around on stage preaching to the rest of us, bono and co are building a massive tower in Dublin and he's gettin his hat flown accross the world... all very easy to pick fault with i know, but think how better those resources could be used? Sure its true of us all, but the level of hypocracy of these people is what I find hard to stomach. How far past the sentiment are THEY going?

And its got fuck all to do with it being in Edinburgh. Its to do with the motivations of people and what they think thye are achieving. Like so much this is all just another demonstration of mass public dispalys of emotion. Being SEEN in the right places demonstrating the right emotions... don't for a second Del imagine that everyone is as genuine as you. They aren't.

Amen to that!! If everyone who performed at Live8 gave everything down to their last million, how much money could you raise? McCartney alone has £700m in the bank. It's just an excuse for wankoids like Madonna to lecture people about poverty, whilst at the same time living in luxury that 99.999% of the world's population will never see. Fecking hypocrites.

[duncan]

If the popstars need an inspiration for charitable works, I'd nominate Zell Kravinsky

He made $45million in property, then gave pretty much all of it away. He then donated one of his kidneys to someone he didn't know.

http://www.ahc.umn.edu/ahc_news/080304/The%20Gift.htm

So comeone Madonna / Elton John / Robbie Williams / Bono / Geldof / Chris Martin - we want your money and your kidneys!

[Sharon]

Quite an inspiring character.

[yourebarred]

Did anyone else go up to Auchterarder yesterday?
Thankfully thousands of people showed up regardless of being lied to by the police and a peaceful protest ensued.
The scenes in the papers today were of course unreflective of the rally.
I walked down a narrow road, lined with police officers. The original route had been blockaded, creating a bottleneck as protesters were forced to double back, completely missing the point of the fence we had been told we could protest at.
There was crushing at the front of the march, which the police did nothing to stop.
G8 Alternatives stewards streamed back through the crowds asking people not to move forward.
The police did nothing to help.
Once people had turned the corner, some entered the field to go up to the fence, again this was not stopped by police.
The violence that ensued was ugly on both sides, but several riot police were visibly seen to be attacking protesters without provocation, and I personally saw some attacking people already running away. The Thames Valley police force (you may have to edit this Sharon) were the most intimidating I came across, and the least willing to help peaceful protest.
However, i would say the rally was a success, the anarchists who utilise violence would have been there anyway, but the police on the road and at the corner should be ashamed of themselves.

[Sir Roger DeLodgerley]

several riot police were visibly seen to be attacking protesters without provocation

Yeah right. Care to post any pictures to substantiate your allegations?

[ladylabobo]

if you give me the chance to get my photos sorted out, I'm sure I can find one or two where the police were being slightly heavy handed with the wrong people.

I also agree that the forces from down south were difficult, arrogant and extremely intimidating. The Scottish forces were smiley, happy, pleasant and helpful.

There really wasnt any trouble there, the police handled things fairly well and 99% of protesters were peaceful and having fun.

[Apollo]

I was unable to post this observation earlier, but having come across a similar view elsewhere, I might as well.

I only found out the G8 was a 3 day event when it ended, given all the fuss, I thought they would be there for a while. As someone who has attended board meetings where decisions that affected people's futures were taken in the course of a few hours, it's clear that the 'G8 Summit' is really a rubber-stamp exercise, as all the discussion and decision making, bar the fine print, has already been completed. As I see it, they had a day to say hello, a day to meet and rubber-stamp, and a day to say goodbye (with one lost due to the bombing).

The point being that all the protestation, demonstration and trouble surrounding the activities outside are really a waste of time. (I'm not suggesting no to public protest, just that the script here was written in advance, and these demos simply triggered its activation).

Poor old Edinburgh does get an opportunity to moan though:

Edinburgh retailers have been complaining bitterly in the wake of the unrest caused in the capital during the G8 Conference in the previous week. On the day of the "Make Poverty History" march in the city, turnover dropped by as much as 80% as fears of violence kept shoppers away. The city centre was described as a "ghost town" - away from those 200,000 marchers, that is. The John Lewis department store (pictured here) has revealed that during the week of the conference, their over-the-counter business dropped by well over 30%. Many stores also employed additional security and surveillance measures during the week, adding to their costs.

[Apollo]

Just to round thing off, a little news item, and a big thank you to the G8 for its assistance in promoting Scotland:

There was a sharp drop of 8.4% in the number of tourists visiting Scotland's main attractions in July, with castles and palaces seeing the biggest drop. Clearly the G8 summit at Gleneagles, far from attracting tourists, produced a threat of disturbances and traffic disruption which kept people away. Many attractions also closed over the three days of the conference, fearing that they could be targeted by demonstrators. Those living in Scotland and England are also an important element in the country's tourist industry, with a growing number of retired folk who visit these attractions on a regular basis. During the week of the G8, they steered clear of the east of Scotland - visitor numbers at attractions in Glasgow did not follow the trend and were up by 8.2%. Clearly the tens of thousands who came to Scotland to demonstrate to the world leaders about poverty in Africa and elsewhere were not interested in also viewing castles and palaces. VisitScotland, the tourism agency, is confident that the figures recovered in August and that, overall, 2005 will be a good year.

[duncan]

There was a sharp drop of 8.4% in the number of tourists visiting Scotland's main attractions in July, with castles and palaces seeing the biggest drop. ... Many attractions also closed over the three days of the conference, fearing that they could be targeted by demonstrators.

does the 8.4% drop in visitors by any chance coincidentally correlate with the 'many' attractions that decided to close?

[Apollo]

I noted somewhere above that the G8 thing was basically a sham, and probably should have explicitly added that I believe much the same of the supposed protests etc. outside it. Though I acknowledge that many well-meaning people are duped and drawn into them, their real purpose is just publicity, and profile-placement for the troublemakers. I've even read that Sir Bob Geldof has stated that the G8 summit failed to make any significant breakthroughs because of the London bombing.

No wonder I prefer to ignore these things unless someone shove a stick through my bars

Case in point, so subdued I almost forgot seeing the news item a few days ago.

G8 met in Moscow, as Russia took over the chairmanship, and barely made the news. Not a summit, but surely such a meeting of the same nations deserves similar attention to that received here last year. Or do demonstrators suspect they might be treated differently in Moscow than Gleneagles?

The local bill for that little exercise was recently announced at almost £8 million.

More numbers, make up your own mind about the value:

The city's council spent more than £3m.

Lothian and Borders Police costs were £4.91m.

Edinburgh businesses lost £7.4m in sales due to the G8 disruption.

The city had benefited by more than £10m from the Make Poverty History parade and the Live8 concert.

The total cost of security and policing for the G8 summit in Scotland was £72m.

(Source: BBC)

[Dexter St. Clair]

So you not being well meaning weren't duped. Good for you big man.

You must be pleased with yourself.